Today I ran across something that got me thinking--what lines are there in who should contribute to certain book review sites.
I have my knee jerk reaction, but do not want to taint your opinion with how I feel about the following scenarios so I will tell you my opinion at the end.
Blogging and reviewing is great because anyone and everyone can do it, but some lines are awfully gray.
Scenario one:
Well known review blog X caters to a primarily adult female book lover audience. Quite often sexually explicit material is discussed by the contributors of the blog. Blog X has hired a new contributor, after a few reviews by this new contributor, word gets out that the reviewer is a minor and male.
Let us muddy up the scenario. You also find out that the minor has been allowed to post a review of an adult themed book that contains explicit sex with the blog owner's consent.
Here are the issues I am dealing with--the audience and publishers engage with blog X with the expectation that it is adults serving adults. Now, the reviewer probably used the blog's name to procure the book through an ARC dispersal site. You can choose multiple answers for this one.
Scenario two:
Now. New scenario.
You discover that a minor female is writing reviews for a site that caters to adult men. Granted, the female's reviews do not cover adult material, but some of the male contributor's reviews do discuss very sexually explicit material. There is interaction, however, between the minor female and the males and sometimes that interaction does include adult themes.
Here is my take: Once you accept advertising money and books from publishers who specialize in adult content--your monetary supporters, as well as your readers, have certain expectations. If you want a blogger to do reviews on other literature, then find an adult, not a minor. It is not appropriate for a minor to blog, with the owner's consent, on a site that often deals with adult themes. It is even more wholly inappropriate to post a review, by said minor, that deals with adults themes.
Now, it would be easy to blame the publishing companies or the ARC distributors for giving a minor a book with adult themes, BUT they probably had the expectation that a reviewer from Blog X was an adult. In my mind the owner of the blog is completely at fault.
What say you?
53
comments:
Anonymous
said...
If the erotic book was provided by an adult blog owner to a minor child, inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. My brain is screaming wrong!wrong!wrong! The wrongness is compounded when the minor child, regardless of gender, engages in discussion with stranger adults on explicit sexual content. More wrongness ensues when the adult blog owner fails to immediately step in and reveal that the person engaging in erotic discussion is in fact a minor child. She let the kid twist in the wind.
I thought it was just one of those things every adult in civilized society knows. You don't give someone else's child age inappropriate books with explicit sexual content. You don't set up someone else's child as the sacrifice in an Internet controversey. I would be looking into punitive action against the blog owner if he were my child.
I know I should not be making jokes. But I keep having this scenario run through my head.
Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC starts trolling review blogs and reading groups. He starts accosting poor, unsuspecting readers.
CH: Ma'am. I need to talk to you. What are you doing here.
Lady: I am here to talk about a book with Blogger X.
CH: Are you really? I have this transcript right here of you talking about throbbing rods of passion breaching the sacred honey cave. Did you discuss this.
Lady: Yes, but--
CH: Are you aware that the "blogger" you were talking to was underage? He was a only fifteen years old.
Lady: But, it was just books.
CH: You should know ma'am, that I am Chris Hansen and you are on to catch a predator.
Lady: But-
CH: You can go now and be tackled by the local law enforcement.
I do find it interesting that people who think it is OK for a minor to engage with adults in such a manner are not commenting to say why they believe it is okay.
ok...here's a question I've been thinking about all day regarding this incident. What if this 15yr. reviewer was a female instead of a male? What if the blog had a male owner and most of the commenters were male and the subject was an erotic novel. Would that bring forth a different reaction? I'm pretty sure that it would. So, the kid is male. That seems to make it okay and that is why I am puzzled by the commenters at DA. This is a kid reviewing an erotic novel. I fail to understand the "whatever" attitude. Really?
The whatever attitude is coming from people who would be up in arms if the roles were reversed.
I also, and please don't hurt me, wonder if this is a way to make themselves better. Tell themselves that no harm was done. It is a way of legitimizing their own behaviour (although given their ignorance they have done nothing wrong) by ignoring the line that was crossed.
Another issue for me is that this has eliminated a certain degree of trust. Can you trust who their contributors are? Are you going to feel as free and comfortable with their opinion?
Oh gawd, now I'm scared of Datline and I haven't watched it in years. I do see Andrea Mitchell around town a lot but she's only interested in nailing scumsuckung politicians.
You know and I know that most teens get their hands on "dirty" books they share with each other. That's not the issue. My problem is with the adult's pimpage -- an adult who wrongfully stepped between a child and his parents and who fails to see anything wrong with it. A person who needs to be told that drowning kittens is generally frowned upon has serious reality disconnect disorder.
And yeah, I'd love to see someone come up with a justification for talking online sex with children. I can't wait.
*snort* I was always stealing my mum's books, my dad's books, AND swapping books with friends. I never read YA because I was reading adult books at age 8. I was a bit of a freak.
Hunh. *looks at tags* would be nice if I could spell.
See. Now I am thinking of trust between readers and bloggers. This may be a two part poll series.
But the thing is, unlike the UK's Black Lace series, I do not see any restricted for 18+ (or whatever US adult age is) on any of the books. And realistically sexually explicit in the romance genre, where we get the happy ending, where the review will talk about the relationship and it's believability.. Not seeing that as harmful.
Actually there *was* a restriction. The source the book was procured from only gives books out if you are 18 or older. This part of the TOS was ignored, so the reviewer in question was in breach of said TOS. And, there are restrictions in the states for erotica and erotic romance.
I am not saying it is harmful. Hell, I read stuff like that. I am just questioning the logic of allowing that review to be published and to not publicly warn the readers that this contributor WAS a minor.
When I was in 7th grade my best friend took a book off her mother's bedside table and she underlined all the "dirty" parts and gave it to me to read. My mother found it and threw it away. But the point is, an adult didn't give the book to me. There is a huge difference and I know the commenters on DA see this, but they just won't own it. It is sort of creepy if you ask me. xina
Let's be clear. The blog owner did NOT give the minor the book. The book came from NetGalley.
To get a book from NG you have to sign up and fill out a profile, it is probable that the book was given because of his connection to the blog in question. Now. When you sign up you have to agree to the TOS which explicitly states that you HAVE to be 18 to belong to and receive books from NetGalley.
The book was clearly marked Harlequin Spice (I checked) so the BS response by both the blogger and the blog owner that it was NOT clearly marked is BS.
Furthermore, the discussion about to read sex scenes or not, is not an appropriate discussion around a minor.
I am not talking about what the kid read, I am more concerned with him even blogging for this blog.
She didn't send the book herself to the reviewer, but she read the review and put it through knowing the reviewer was a minor. Very odd and strange on her part. xina
A minor contributing a review of an erotic romance to a blog with a largely adult audience is inappropriate, regardless of gender. There are no ifs or buts in this case, as far as I'm concerned.
I think the real issue here is some readers are uncomfortable with the idea of discussing an erotic novel with a male teenager, rather than the fact that he read(s) that kind of novels.
If readers aren't keen on this, don't read or discuss his reviews. Besides, he did say it'd be an one-off as he didn't realise it was an erotic novel, but felt obliged to review because he took it from Netgallery.
I personally don't have a problem, probably because I'm aware that there are some romance reader bloggers who are 18 or under. He's no exception in this case.
The real issue for me isn't my discomfort about talking sex with a minor since I have no intentions of talking sex with any minor except my own child.
My issue becomes the very essence of his reviewing on that site opens him up to adults who don't have those issues. weren't there women offering their books to him? Is the blog owner taking any responsibility at all to make sure the interactions between him and er blog followers are safe and appropriate?
I expressed concern. The minor said "email me and we'll discuss it". I don't email strange minors and didn't. But what if I had? What if I'd emaled and we discussed the issue and then started talking about books? What if our conversation got friendly? What if I wasn't who I said I was but instead a 25 year old man who likes to prey on younger boys?
This is the internet. If you don't think that it's a hunting ground for vulnerable children think again. And a 15 year old blogging about romance on a popular blog is easy pickings.
He's a terrific reviewer but I think that the situation could be a huge mistake. And if someone does take advantage of him, whose fault will it be then?
Personally, what an adult or a child read is their business. What goes on in families is their business. But...
(and keep in mind I have no idea where this came from...)
When you go to a public site, and most adult sites state explicity that you need to be 18 or older to view such content, I think it's a double standard to have someone under 18, no matter how much under, whether it be months, years, or days. Frankly, it's unprofessional. I know that here, 18 year olds can legally work at bars, though they are still not legally allowed to drink. But even then, it's legal adult age. Just as underage humans aren't allowed in a bar, or in a strip club, etc, etc...the same should hold true online. I'm sure there are laws against this. And personally, I'm not in any way, shape, or form going to knowingly do business with a place that might wind me up with that label of child predator that sticks with you even if proved otherwise.
Common business sense dictates that if you are going to run a business in the adult industry (and yes, erotic stories are part of the adult industry), then certain responsibilities need to be taken in regard to that.
THAT is my issue. If you can't be responsible, then get out of the business. Period.
"And if someone does take advantage of him, whose fault will it be then?"
Ultimately? His parents or guardian(s).
All minors' computer activities should be monitored by their parents whenever possible. If a fifteen-year-old posted a review, it HAS to be assumed this was done with his parents' knowledge and acceptance. If it was posted without them knowing, then it's an issue between said reviewer and his parents or guardian(s).
I was a legal guardian of my two youngest siblings since he was fourteen (20 now) and she fifteen (21). And yeah, it was a constant war between me and them over their computer activities, especially over the personal details they provided on MySpace. I went ballistic when I discovered he listed his full birth date, school name, and home town. AND he met a thirty-two year old woman trapped in an abusive relationship. That was a headache I'd not like to have again.
In the end, we made a deal: they can do whatever they want online as long as they follow these three rules: no personal details (address, email addrss, school, etc.); no meeting up with an online friend without my knowledge (and if they want to meet them, they have to introduce them to me in their first meeting), and definitely no photos that could reveal their location (school, home, etc.). This way I can trust them to be sensible. If they abuse my trust, they lose computer access. It worked out okay.
Danger is everywhere online - message boards, AIM, MySpace, Facebook, blogs, Amazon message boards, etc. Teen sites, even. The best protection is ban the internet altogether, but it's not going to work. So all we can do is repeatedly ensure our children will follow the rules consistently and faithfully.
To be honest: if my siblings were at that age again, I'd rather have them at DA than at Facebook, MySpace or other social media venues, because I know and trust DA Jane or one of DA staff that they would take immediate action if a DA visitor made an inappropriate move towards a DA visitor or reviewer. That's what my decision would be if I was still responsible for either my siblings. Of course, other parents or guardians would have different views and I fully respect that.
All that said, as far as I know, there are no legal age restrictions on mainstream books (which is different from adult books), which is why I feel it's important for parents to supervise their children's book lists constantly if they are concerned about the impact some novels may have on their children.
Thanks for letting me share my looooong-winded view. :D
...and just because a site is "respected" (which is a subjective term I might add)does not mean it is OK.
Oh come now! Highschool teachers do not often discuss erotica or erotic romance with their students! Are you serious? I went to a very liberal highschool and was allowed to read what I want, but this sort of thing is crossing the line.
Actually the book isn't as erotic as it sounds. I was more disturbed by it because the hero is a rude, egotistical jerk.
So minors, are not allowed to discuss certain books on a public forum? Many YA I've read are heavy on violence and sex. So what if a book that is somewhat erotic? It's okay to read violence book and discuss them, but when it comes to sex and sex acts that are a bit more steamy, it's not okay?
I'm not trying to be rude, but just having a discussion about it, because I think it is an interesting topic and it should be expressed.
I am sorry. You are missing my point. My issue was never what he reviewed, so let's get over that.
My issue is that the site is for adults and most of the content (posters love to put up excerpts of sex scenes) is for adults.
Why get a minor blogger when your content is clearly adult? There are plenty of romance sites and YA sites that are just AS respectable that are more appropriate for a minor. I have to call into question this blog owner's judgment.
I am not saying kids should not discuss sex or have their safe places to do so. The blog in question is not such a place.
I have been talking with my friends who are in law and law enforcement and they had some pretty colourful things to say about this subject--none of which side with the blogger in question.
But Dear Author also reviews YA. Actually all types of genres.
So if an minor walks into a bookstore and buys an erotic novel, he or she should be carded for it much like an R-Rated movie?
We have a difference of opinion on this. I am just concerned now, because what if I allow a minor to review a romance book on my blog that some people may consider too erotic? Would I get in trouble?
It's a known MO of pedophiles to give explicit materials to those underage with the expressed purpose of getting them aroused and then using that to further their cause. Or discussing sexual situations with them to do the same.
So, no, it's not okay for a CHILD to discuss a book that has explicit scenes in it with an adult who is not their parent. Especially not on a public forum. How many predators meet their prey on public forums? A damn lot. Just by posting a review like this, this kid has put a big red flag on his head for NAMBLA. These predators see anything as a green light.
And not just pedophiles. BTK? Hello?
These YAs that have sex or violence in them, they're not for the express purpose of titillation like they are in erotica. They aren't written to get you off.
I know you are not trying to be rude ;) I am just trying to clearly express what I am trying to say.
You have to admit, that online you do not know who is safe and who is not. I am thinking more in terms of protecting kids from predators.
Am I saying there are predators on that blog? No. What I am saying is that I do not believe the blog owner is really protecting her minor blogger by publishing that review and by not clearly introducing him as a minor. I find that utterly irresponsible.
I don't care what books he read. Hell, I am the farthest thing from a prude, but I am protective of kids because there are too many people who will take advantage of them.
Again, in response to you allowing a minor to review on your blog--I do not care about material...I care about content of said blog, given that your blog contains adult themes--that would be more troubling that a minor reviewing a romance on your blog.
What a minor reads is their own business, however when adults think it is okay to engage in conversations around the child that are clearly adult conversations, then you have crossed a line.
I'm not saying kids shouldn't be able to explore their questions about sex in a safe place, but really, the anonymity of the internet with adults they don't know...
Further, when I visit a website that discusses explicit material, I expect to be conversing with other adults. I make no bones about the fact that me and my work are both for adults only.
That and too long in law enforcement. Having a kid poking around is too diaper sniper for me.
Thanks.:) That is what I was trying to say, albeit poorly.
@Maili
I fully agree that the onus is really on the parents. However, I still have to question the blog owner's motives for her actions. Something smells rotten to me.
Kid picks up erotic book on his own, I'm good with that.
Kid picks up erotic book on his own and talks to his friends about it (on and off the internet), I'm good with that.
Kid picks up erotic book on his own and talk to his parents about it, I'm good with that.
Kid picks up erotic book, writes a review for a review site and discusses it with strange adults on the internet? I'm SO not OK with that it's not even funny. And frankly, the responsibilty for the review is not HIS, but his BOSS's.
Sick. Not the kid, but the adults who should know better.
Ans, how's this kid now that this discussion has happened all over romanclandia? Or the Boss didn't think of that? Cause that's Boss's responsibility, too.
Oh excellent! It's about time! Now I can dig out my favourite Black Lace novel, hit up some random 15 year old boy on Facebook, and we can discuss whether or not it's possible to get two dicks in one hole and whether one can actually use cooking oil as lube.
And when his Mom and Dad call the police on me and I'm standing before the judge I'll tell them it's okay because his profile said he reads Chaucer *and* he was the one who selected the book.
As an author, my books get reviews on all sorts of sites. My books all have an under 18 warning, and if a minor purchases one of my books, it's a violation of the TOS of the website. I am really stunned that a 15 year old boy is reviewing on the same site that review adult only books. How completely inappropriate is that?
As a mother, if I discovered that one of my minor daughters was doing the same thing, I'd be out to kick some virtual ass.
53 comments:
If the erotic book was provided by an adult blog owner to a minor child, inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. My brain is screaming wrong!wrong!wrong! The wrongness is compounded when the minor child, regardless of gender, engages in discussion with stranger adults on explicit sexual content. More wrongness ensues when the adult blog owner fails to immediately step in and reveal that the person engaging in erotic discussion is in fact a minor child. She let the kid twist in the wind.
I thought it was just one of those things every adult in civilized society knows. You don't give someone else's child age inappropriate books with explicit sexual content. You don't set up someone else's child as the sacrifice in an Internet controversey. I would be looking into punitive action against the blog owner if he were my child.
Diana Saschakeet
@Diana
I agree.
I know I should not be making jokes. But I keep having this scenario run through my head.
Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC starts trolling review blogs and reading groups. He starts accosting poor, unsuspecting readers.
CH: Ma'am. I need to talk to you. What are you doing here.
Lady: I am here to talk about a book with Blogger X.
CH: Are you really? I have this transcript right here of you talking about throbbing rods of passion breaching the sacred honey cave. Did you discuss this.
Lady: Yes, but--
CH: Are you aware that the "blogger" you were talking to was underage? He was a only fifteen years old.
Lady: But, it was just books.
CH: You should know ma'am, that I am Chris Hansen and you are on to catch a predator.
Lady: But-
CH: You can go now and be tackled by the local law enforcement.
I do find it interesting that people who think it is OK for a minor to engage with adults in such a manner are not commenting to say why they believe it is okay.
How minor is the minor?
Is the minor like 12 or like 16 or 17?
I started reading romance novels with sex scenes around age 15 maybe late 14.
He is 15.
My issue is NOT with him reading romances/erotica. Hell. I was reading adult books at age ten. What kids read is their (and their parents) business.
I have an issue with a minor being a contributor to an adult forum and this not being explicitly stated by the blog owner.
Let me clarify. It is not the reading material, it is the interaction with adults discussing romantic erotica/erotica that I have an issue with.
ok...here's a question I've been thinking about all day regarding this incident. What if this 15yr. reviewer was a female instead of a male? What if the blog had a male owner and most of the commenters were male and the subject was an erotic novel. Would that bring forth a different reaction? I'm pretty sure that it would. So, the kid is male. That seems to make it okay and that is why I am puzzled by the commenters at DA. This is a kid reviewing an erotic novel. I fail to understand the "whatever" attitude. Really?
@anonymous
The whatever attitude is coming from people who would be up in arms if the roles were reversed.
I also, and please don't hurt me, wonder if this is a way to make themselves better. Tell themselves that no harm was done. It is a way of legitimizing their own behaviour (although given their ignorance they have done nothing wrong) by ignoring the line that was crossed.
Another issue for me is that this has eliminated a certain degree of trust. Can you trust who their contributors are? Are you going to feel as free and comfortable with their opinion?
Oh gawd, now I'm scared of Datline and I haven't watched it in years. I do see Andrea Mitchell around town a lot but she's only interested in nailing scumsuckung politicians.
You know and I know that most teens get their hands on "dirty" books they share with each other. That's not the issue. My problem is with the adult's pimpage -- an adult who wrongfully stepped between a child and his parents and who fails to see anything wrong with it. A person who needs to be told that drowning kittens is generally frowned upon has serious reality disconnect disorder.
And yeah, I'd love to see someone come up with a justification for talking online sex with children. I can't wait.
Diana
@Diana
*snort* I was always stealing my mum's books, my dad's books, AND swapping books with friends. I never read YA because I was reading adult books at age 8. I was a bit of a freak.
Hunh. *looks at tags* would be nice if I could spell.
See. Now I am thinking of trust between readers and bloggers. This may be a two part poll series.
For me it depends on the age to a certain extent, a male or female 15yr old reviewing books on an adult blog, doesn't bother me at all.
*shrug*
@anonymous
If the adult blog was not dealing with sexually explicit material, like erotica, it would not bother me either.
Whoops forgot the classifier: As long as the content is books, only the odd raunch book, etc not a porn review site.
Edie
Hey! I had a review that looked like it was written by an eight year old! Maybe this is him! :)
As an author, I'd expect an adult to read and review my work. I don't write YA.
But the thing is, unlike the UK's Black Lace series, I do not see any restricted for 18+ (or whatever US adult age is) on any of the books.
And realistically sexually explicit in the romance genre, where we get the happy ending, where the review will talk about the relationship and it's believability.. Not seeing that as harmful.
Actually there *was* a restriction. The source the book was procured from only gives books out if you are 18 or older. This part of the TOS was ignored, so the reviewer in question was in breach of said TOS. And, there are restrictions in the states for erotica and erotic romance.
I am not saying it is harmful. Hell, I read stuff like that. I am just questioning the logic of allowing that review to be published and to not publicly warn the readers that this contributor WAS a minor.
@Alanna
Um...this kid can actually write. THAT reviewer well. I am sure that one is an adult who does not have a way with words. ;)
Is it the Featherstone review? As the reviewers bio is fairly clear on age?
Sorry I am mainly debating/arguing to procrastinate starting work. ;)
Edie
@Edie
His bio on his blogger profile *is* clear on age, but not the bio attached to the Featherstone review.
When I was in 7th grade my best friend took a book off her mother's bedside table and she underlined all the "dirty" parts and gave it to me to read. My mother found it and threw it away. But the point is, an adult didn't give the book to me. There is a huge difference and I know the commenters on DA see this, but they just won't own it. It is sort of creepy if you ask me. xina
Let's be clear. The blog owner did NOT give the minor the book. The book came from NetGalley.
To get a book from NG you have to sign up and fill out a profile, it is probable that the book was given because of his connection to the blog in question. Now. When you sign up you have to agree to the TOS which explicitly states that you HAVE to be 18 to belong to and receive books from NetGalley.
The book was clearly marked Harlequin Spice (I checked) so the BS response by both the blogger and the blog owner that it was NOT clearly marked is BS.
Furthermore, the discussion about to read sex scenes or not, is not an appropriate discussion around a minor.
I am not talking about what the kid read, I am more concerned with him even blogging for this blog.
Also, surely there are adult YA reviewers that this blog could have tried out. Why use a minor, unless this is a lame attempt to stir up controversy.
I suppose I should add that I am waiting to be convinced otherwise. ;)
I do not mean to appear overly argumentative, I just am by nature.
She didn't send the book herself to the reviewer, but she read the review and put it through knowing the reviewer was a minor. Very odd and strange on her part. xina
A minor contributing a review of an erotic romance to a blog with a largely adult audience is inappropriate, regardless of gender. There are no ifs or buts in this case, as far as I'm concerned.
I think the real issue here is some readers are uncomfortable with the idea of discussing an erotic novel with a male teenager, rather than the fact that he read(s) that kind of novels.
If readers aren't keen on this, don't read or discuss his reviews.
Besides, he did say it'd be an one-off as he didn't realise it was an erotic novel, but felt obliged to review because he took it from Netgallery.
I personally don't have a problem, probably because I'm aware that there are some romance reader bloggers who are 18 or under. He's no exception in this case.
The real issue for me isn't my discomfort about talking sex with a minor since I have no intentions of talking sex with any minor except my own child.
My issue becomes the very essence of his reviewing on that site opens him up to adults who don't have those issues. weren't there women offering their books to him? Is the blog owner taking any responsibility at all to make sure the interactions between him and er blog followers are safe and appropriate?
I expressed concern. The minor said "email me and we'll discuss it". I don't email strange minors and didn't. But what if I had? What if I'd emaled and we discussed the issue and then started talking about books? What if our conversation got friendly? What if I wasn't who I said I was but instead a 25 year old man who likes to prey on younger boys?
This is the internet. If you don't think that it's a hunting ground for vulnerable children think again. And a 15 year old blogging about romance on a popular blog is easy pickings.
He's a terrific reviewer but I think that the situation could be a huge mistake. And if someone does take advantage of him, whose fault will it be then?
Personally, what an adult or a child read is their business. What goes on in families is their business. But...
(and keep in mind I have no idea where this came from...)
When you go to a public site, and most adult sites state explicity that you need to be 18 or older to view such content, I think it's a double standard to have someone under 18, no matter how much under, whether it be months, years, or days. Frankly, it's unprofessional. I know that here, 18 year olds can legally work at bars, though they are still not legally allowed to drink. But even then, it's legal adult age. Just as underage humans aren't allowed in a bar, or in a strip club, etc, etc...the same should hold true online. I'm sure there are laws against this. And personally, I'm not in any way, shape, or form going to knowingly do business with a place that might wind me up with that label of child predator that sticks with you even if proved otherwise.
Common business sense dictates that if you are going to run a business in the adult industry (and yes, erotic stories are part of the adult industry), then certain responsibilities need to be taken in regard to that.
THAT is my issue. If you can't be responsible, then get out of the business. Period.
@Lori
Fair point.
"And if someone does take advantage of him, whose fault will it be then?"
Ultimately? His parents or guardian(s).
All minors' computer activities should be monitored by their parents whenever possible. If a fifteen-year-old posted a review, it HAS to be assumed this was done with his parents' knowledge and acceptance. If it was posted without them knowing, then it's an issue between said reviewer and his parents or guardian(s).
I was a legal guardian of my two youngest siblings since he was fourteen (20 now) and she fifteen (21). And yeah, it was a constant war between me and them over their computer activities, especially over the personal details they provided on MySpace. I went ballistic when I discovered he listed his full birth date, school name, and home town. AND he met a thirty-two year old woman trapped in an abusive relationship. That was a headache I'd not like to have again.
In the end, we made a deal: they can do whatever they want online as long as they follow these three rules: no personal details (address, email addrss, school, etc.); no meeting up with an online friend without my knowledge (and if they want to meet them, they have to introduce them to me in their first meeting), and definitely no photos that could reveal their location (school, home, etc.). This way I can trust them to be sensible. If they abuse my trust, they lose computer access. It worked out okay.
Danger is everywhere online - message boards, AIM, MySpace, Facebook, blogs, Amazon message boards, etc. Teen sites, even. The best protection is ban the internet altogether, but it's not going to work. So all we can do is repeatedly ensure our children will follow the rules consistently and faithfully.
To be honest: if my siblings were at that age again, I'd rather have them at DA than at Facebook, MySpace or other social media venues, because I know and trust DA Jane or one of DA staff that they would take immediate action if a DA visitor made an inappropriate move towards a DA visitor or reviewer. That's what my decision would be if I was still responsible for either my siblings. Of course, other parents or guardians would have different views and I fully respect that.
All that said, as far as I know, there are no legal age restrictions on mainstream books (which is different from adult books), which is why I feel it's important for parents to supervise their children's book lists constantly if they are concerned about the impact some novels may have on their children.
Thanks for letting me share my looooong-winded view. :D
I'd rather a teen read a "dirty" or risque book than watch X-Rated sex acts on television. The things I read at 16 would shock some people.
Doesn't seem to be a big issue for me.
@KB the issue is not what a minor is reading, I have no issue with that. The issue is the forum.
What's wrong with the forum? Dear Author is a very respected review site.
I must be missing something then.
It is highly inappropriate for a minor to be posting and discussing sexual content with adults.
This is why blogger has content barriers, it is unethical and irresponsible.
Really? But why? What if he had this discussion with a teacher about this book?
What if he had his own blog and adults came on to discuss with him?
Again, if he reviewed a classic erotic book like DH Laurence on a public forum like DA, would there be an issue?
...and just because a site is "respected" (which is a subjective term I might add)does not mean it is OK.
Oh come now! Highschool teachers do not often discuss erotica or erotic romance with their students! Are you serious? I went to a very liberal highschool and was allowed to read what I want, but this sort of thing is crossing the line.
Actually the book isn't as erotic as it sounds. I was more disturbed by it because the hero is a rude, egotistical jerk.
So minors, are not allowed to discuss certain books on a public forum? Many YA I've read are heavy on violence and sex. So what if a book that is somewhat erotic? It's okay to read violence book and discuss them, but when it comes to sex and sex acts that are a bit more steamy, it's not okay?
I'm not trying to be rude, but just having a discussion about it, because I think it is an interesting topic and it should be expressed.
I am sorry. You are missing my point. My issue was never what he reviewed, so let's get over that.
My issue is that the site is for adults and most of the content (posters love to put up excerpts of sex scenes) is for adults.
Why get a minor blogger when your content is clearly adult? There are plenty of romance sites and YA sites that are just AS respectable that are more appropriate for a minor. I have to call into question this blog owner's judgment.
I am not saying kids should not discuss sex or have their safe places to do so. The blog in question is not such a place.
I have been talking with my friends who are in law and law enforcement and they had some pretty colourful things to say about this subject--none of which side with the blogger in question.
But Dear Author also reviews YA. Actually all types of genres.
So if an minor walks into a bookstore and buys an erotic novel, he or she should be carded for it much like an R-Rated movie?
We have a difference of opinion on this. I am just concerned now, because what if I allow a minor to review a romance book on my blog that some people may consider too erotic? Would I get in trouble?
It's a known MO of pedophiles to give explicit materials to those underage with the expressed purpose of getting them aroused and then using that to further their cause. Or discussing sexual situations with them to do the same.
So, no, it's not okay for a CHILD to discuss a book that has explicit scenes in it with an adult who is not their parent. Especially not on a public forum. How many predators meet their prey on public forums? A damn lot. Just by posting a review like this, this kid has put a big red flag on his head for NAMBLA. These predators see anything as a green light.
And not just pedophiles. BTK? Hello?
These YAs that have sex or violence in them, they're not for the express purpose of titillation like they are in erotica. They aren't written to get you off.
@KB
I know you are not trying to be rude ;) I am just trying to clearly express what I am trying to say.
You have to admit, that online you do not know who is safe and who is not. I am thinking more in terms of protecting kids from predators.
Am I saying there are predators on that blog? No. What I am saying is that I do not believe the blog owner is really protecting her minor blogger by publishing that review and by not clearly introducing him as a minor. I find that utterly irresponsible.
I don't care what books he read. Hell, I am the farthest thing from a prude, but I am protective of kids because there are too many people who will take advantage of them.
Again, in response to you allowing a minor to review on your blog--I do not care about material...I care about content of said blog, given that your blog contains adult themes--that would be more troubling that a minor reviewing a romance on your blog.
What a minor reads is their own business, however when adults think it is okay to engage in conversations around the child that are clearly adult conversations, then you have crossed a line.
I'm not saying kids shouldn't be able to explore their questions about sex in a safe place, but really, the anonymity of the internet with adults they don't know...
Further, when I visit a website that discusses explicit material, I expect to be conversing with other adults. I make no bones about the fact that me and my work are both for adults only.
That and too long in law enforcement. Having a kid poking around is too diaper sniper for me.
@sara
You just had to make me spew with the diaper sniper didn't ya?
You know I try to do that at least once a week. *g*
@ Lori
Thanks.:) That is what I was trying to say, albeit poorly.
@Maili
I fully agree that the onus is really on the parents. However, I still have to question the blog owner's motives for her actions. Something smells rotten to me.
@ sara
*snort*
I am still working on today's post about the relationship of trust between blogger/reviewers and readers.
Vincent!
Well said (repeatedly), Sara.
Diaper sniper is priceless!!
I think the issue is being missed by some. The issue is not that the child is acquiring sexually explicit material on his own. We have all been there.
The issue is the behavior of the adults in this situation. To put it mildly, it has been less than stellar.
@annemarie
Exactly. If I had a kid blogging with me (*snort*) I would be doing all I could to protect her. Period.
Kid picks up erotic book on his own, I'm good with that.
Kid picks up erotic book on his own and talks to his friends about it (on and off the internet), I'm good with that.
Kid picks up erotic book on his own and talk to his parents about it, I'm good with that.
Kid picks up erotic book, writes a review for a review site and discusses it with strange adults on the internet? I'm SO not OK with that it's not even funny. And frankly, the responsibilty for the review is not HIS, but his BOSS's.
Sick. Not the kid, but the adults who should know better.
Ans, how's this kid now that this discussion has happened all over romanclandia? Or the Boss didn't think of that? Cause that's Boss's responsibility, too.
Oh excellent! It's about time! Now I can dig out my favourite Black Lace novel, hit up some random 15 year old boy on Facebook, and we can discuss whether or not it's possible to get two dicks in one hole and whether one can actually use cooking oil as lube.
And when his Mom and Dad call the police on me and I'm standing before the judge I'll tell them it's okay because his profile said he reads Chaucer *and* he was the one who selected the book.
@Peggy- Will you marry me?
Your little scenario sums it up perfectly and it made me love you. *g*
My mind boggles at this entire scenario.
As an author, my books get reviews on all sorts of sites. My books all have an under 18 warning, and if a minor purchases one of my books, it's a violation of the TOS of the website. I am really stunned that a 15 year old boy is reviewing on the same site that review adult only books. How completely inappropriate is that?
As a mother, if I discovered that one of my minor daughters was doing the same thing, I'd be out to kick some virtual ass.
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